FAQ   Search   Memberlist    www.derrenbrown.co.uk     Profile   You have 1 new message   Log out [ papillion ]  A Hypothetical Performance Question Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next          www.derrenbrownforum.com Forum Index -> Performances View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:53 pm    Post subject: It's interesting, isn't it? On the death side: I know diddlysquat about psychological stuff, but if it was possible to use subliminal suggestion techniques to convince the subconscious that you were, in fact, dead (rather than the standard stage hypnosis-type stuff), wouldn't the conscious mind then try to rationalise it? What kind of conclusion could be reached from an inner battle like that? That you were somehow a freak of nature, the living dead? And would that cause you to start behaving as such? Or would you just panic? (I'm looking at severe mental trauma here, aren't I! Perhaps the soul jars are the better plan!) I think with Fabian, it was different. It perhaps used a low-level type of hypnosis, similar to the type used by stage hypnotists, where you believe something (like the fact that there are *gulp* zombies in the room) but also know that you are perfectly safe at the same time. It also means that you are acting as you think you should, rather than as you would do if faced by the situation for real. Does that make sense? _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top debbie20 Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1160 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: I won't pretend to know anything about psychology either but isn't using subconcious messaging to convince someone of something a bit like the way the senses deceive us sometimes, like when we see distant objects.Our sense of sight is telling us they are small but our reason knows that they are not.The images will always be imbeded in our subconscious as small but also the reasoning that they are not. How does he get rid of the reasoning that is embedded in the subconsious along with the deception? Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: SpasmTheCat wrote: It's interesting, isn't it? On the death side: I know diddlysquat about psychological stuff, but if it was possible to use subliminal suggestion techniques to convince the subconscious that you were, in fact, dead (rather than the standard stage hypnosis-type stuff), wouldn't the conscious mind then try to rationalise it? What kind of conclusion could be reached from an inner battle like that? That you were somehow a freak of nature, the living dead? And would that cause you to start behaving as such? Or would you just panic? (I'm looking at severe mental trauma here, aren't I! Perhaps the soul jars are the better plan!) I think with Fabian, it was different. It perhaps used a low-level type of hypnosis, similar to the type used by stage hypnotists, where you believe something (like the fact that there are *gulp* zombies in the room) but also know that you are perfectly safe at the same time. It also means that you are acting as you think you should, rather than as you would do if faced by the situation for real. Does that make sense? Like the talking on the telephone example I like. If you really seriously thought you were on the phone you would think you were holding a phone... instead of the stage hypnosis style talking into your hand with thumb and little finger extended. I'm not sure it would be possible to convince someone they are dead other than in a similar stage hypnosis style... No matter how convincing the no pulse is, there would be a lot of contradictory information at a biological, conscious and sub-conscious level (like breathing for an example) which means you would have to suspend your disbelief in order to buy into the idea of being dead. So you might get a Fabian-like freak out, but not significantly worse than thinking the broom next to you suddently turned into Elvis. (Presley or Costello). But then I'm not a hypnotist or mentalist or the devil incarnate... what do I know!?! _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: My broom turned into Elvis once. It demanded a cheeseburger, and then swept off bristling with fury when I said I didn't have any... (Sorry!) Thanks for your input guys, it's enthralling! I think general concensus here then is that it wouldn't work; there would be a conflict between conscious and subconscious that would be too difficult to bridge. Shame really! Perhaps we should just stick to the soul-stealing! TC wrote: Like the talking on the telephone example I like. If you really seriously thought you were on the phone you would think you were holding a phone... instead of the stage hypnosis style talking into your hand with thumb and little finger extended. Yep! Or like when a hypnotised person is told they're driving a car. They bounce up and down in their seat and turn the imaginary steering wheel left, right, left the whole time. You'd never drive like that in real life! _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: How about convincing someone that they'd killed someone else, rather than that they were dead? _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Ooh, now there's an idea! He could get them to reveal the name of the person they'd murdered, along with the gory details, and then produce an autopsy report he'd prepared earlier... _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: He could go through various stages of predicting which person in a group they would select as their 'victim', what object they would use as a weapon, what elements they would include in their alibi... or something along those lines. _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top phoenixz On Her Fiery Plume Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 2357 Location: Atop her Enchanted Tree in S.Wales Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: death? this is getting into the realms of really screw you up magic......i like it what about the stuff of nightmares like stuff crawling under your skin, snakes in the belly or turing people to stone when you touch them would it be fesable to make someone think that they have the touch of death, that by them touching someone that person would die? I know nothing about Hypnosis or Psycology or Magic..... _________________ Tis the Season of GOOD WILL So i'll be good if you will............ Derren is my Dealer........... Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: All fun and nasty, but without the element of prediction it seems more a morbid take on stage hypnosis than menalist-icky sort of stuff. _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: TC, like that idea! It's a bit like a live 'Cluedo'! And Phoe, too! Persuading someone that they have the 'touch of death' would be very interesting indeed, especially if they accidentally touched Derren when he'd already said that he was the only one who could cure them... ...and he gets to do a bit of acting! _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: SpasmTheCat wrote: It's a bit like a live 'Cluedo'! Or preparation for 'Seance 2'. _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Heh heh, indeed! So how do you work mentalism/psychological-illusioning into 'touch of death'? _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Last edited by SpasmTheCat on Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top phoenixz On Her Fiery Plume Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 2357 Location: Atop her Enchanted Tree in S.Wales Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: touch me SpasmTheCat wrote: TC, like that idea! It's a bit like a live 'Cluedo'! And Phoe, too! Persuading someone that they have the 'touch of death' would be very interesting indeed, especially if they accidentally touched Derren when he'd already said that he was the only one who could cure them... ...and he gets to do a bit of acting! but the most interesting thing would be to see if they used this power, for example, the only way to test it is to use it, but if they used it once on another voulenteer or friend, would they then use it again? Moral fibre stuff...... _________________ Tis the Season of GOOD WILL So i'll be good if you will............ Derren is my Dealer........... Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: SpasmTheCat wrote: Heh heh, indeed! So how do you work mentalism/psychological-illusioning into 'touch of death'? Predicting who they would try to use it on? Or how they would try to test it maybe? _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: If you believed you had the touch of death, would you rather: Test it out on a beloved family pet Test it out on a random stranger Test it out on someone you believed to be a bad person Test it out by touching yourself (not necessarily in a rude way) ? _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: Criminy, that's a toughie... Can I try it out on a random bad pet? _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: SpasmTheCat wrote: Criminy, that's a toughie... Can I try it out on a random bad pet? No. That's cheating. If it had to be one of the above, which would you choose? _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Erm, then I'd probably touch myself. Logic dictates that it wouldn't work on me, otherwise I'd only have to inadvertently scratch my nose and I'd snuff it. And if it did work, then it's probably for the best - having to go through life with one finger in the air, not being able to hug anyone I loved would be miserable! How about you? _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: If it was someone else's family pet maybe.... If the touch of death didn't work on me. _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top Lolly Pertwhistle Forumite Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4247 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: I'd wangle some way of shaking hands with Bush. And until then I'd keep my hand in an over-sized black boxing glove with "Fist O' Doom" written on it. _________________ "Shit... Well, if this is going to be that sort of party then I'm gonna stick my dick in someone's potatoes." Last edited by Lolly Pertwhistle on Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top phoenixz On Her Fiery Plume Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 2357 Location: Atop her Enchanted Tree in S.Wales Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: self harm hmmmm...... not a pet not random stranger maybe bad person, although does that say something about me being judgemental? maybe myself, although i'm supposed to not be self destructing anymore hmmmm...... _________________ Tis the Season of GOOD WILL So i'll be good if you will............ Derren is my Dealer........... Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Lolly Pertwhistle wrote: I'd wangle someway of shaking hands with Bush. And until then I'd keep my hand in an over-sized black boxing glove with "Fist O' Doom" written on it. Fabulous! - on both counts. _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Back to top SpasmTheCat Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7314 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Lolly Pertwhistle wrote: And until then I'd keep my hand in an over-sized black boxing glove with "Fist O' Doom" written on it. Man, that's almost worth doing anyway! _________________ "The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma Back to top TC Forumite Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 1328 Location: In my own world - it's okay they know me here Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:32 pm    Post subject: How about ideas for other tricks along the lines of the nail up the nose thing? One of DVBs tricks reminded me of something in a book by Hatsumi Masaaki 'Essence of Ninjutsu'. There is a section in this book on the sorts of trickery and stunts that have been associated with ninja. One he mentions, which I have saw him perform a few years ago is taking a japanese katana, having tied against his face and then 'drawing' the sword without drawing blood, or as a variation standing on the blade barefoot. EDIT: move along, nothing to see here. _________________ There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello) Last edited by TC on Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top phoenixz On Her Fiery Plume Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 2357 Location: Atop her Enchanted Tree in S.Wales Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:34 pm    Post subject: broken glass? remember i haven't seen the live show ever and only saw half the last series _________________ Tis the Season of GOOD WILL So i'll be good if you will............ Derren is my Dealer........... Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         www.derrenbrownforum.com Forum Index -> Performances All times are GMT Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next Page 5 of 7 Watch this topic for replies   Jump to: Select a forum Derren Brown Forum----------------General ChatDerren ChatPerformancesAbout the forumThe Birdy's Beak  You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You can edit your posts in this forum You can delete your posts in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum