A Hypothetical Performance Question

TC · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject:

I think it may be possible to get someone to go along with the idea - of beign dead and/or have DVB have your soul in a jar... but I think it would be a bit like people on the phone when they are hypnotised. They may go along with it and play it out - but I don't think it would have any physical impact on them. Just like people who think they are on the phone will play along whilst talking into their little finger and listening to their thumb.

I know we often distinguish between conscious and subconscious 'minds', DBM includes an additional disctinction of a 'biological 'mind'' - dealing with all the physiological responses that we don't pay any attention to - like breathing, blinking, sweating, blushing (and anything else you may do if you were face to face with DVB).

EDIT: Bleh, new page.
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There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello)

AnnaM · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject:

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

Interesting, TC.

But how about if DB could do it without 'hypnosis' (I use the word with gritted teeth)? Perhaps by creating suggestions designed to make you think you're giving your soul to him?
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janus · Resident Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 732

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

Have never been to one but judging from that show on E4 I am not too impressed.
I think it is possible to convince a person of anything with the right conditions,but not any person.

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

I want stuff that shocks me and makes me think.Stuff that makes me say to myself'God I wonder if I had been there would I have reacted in the same way as that person or those people.Am I capable of that?'
People are so desensitized to everything these days it's so hard to conjure up those feelings of awe and shock.

TC · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject:

I think I get what you mean Spasm, I'm just not sure how or what suggestions of that sort wouldn't be 'hypnosis'. I guess it depends on what your interpretation of that is. Personally I would consider any use of language to suggest or alter ways of thinking or behaving as hypnosis - with or without any 'trance' induction.
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There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello)

AnnaM · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject:

Spasm (*checks spelling*) you sound like me in the last post Very Happy

All though I am embrassingly scared of hypnosis.
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Prudence · Newbie Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 17

Oooh, this is good! I like hypothetical questions.

I thought you might be interested to know that I once thought I was dead, so it is a possibility. I died in a dream, and woke up still thinking I was dead. It took a few moments for me to realise that I was actually alive, and, in the words of the best children's stories, it had all been a dream.

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

Yep, TC, it's all a bit ambiguous, isn't it? Dictionary.com defines 'hypnosis' as 'an artificially induced altered state of consciousness, characterized by heightened suggestibility and receptivity to direction.' which would concur with what we're talking about here. But the Oxford Dictionary defines it as 'artificially produced sleep'. I do have a very old Oxford Dictionary though!

*grins at Anna!*
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"The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life
having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

Weird, Prudence! I dreamed once that I was dressed as a maid in a Victorian kitchen, and a man came in and stabbed me. It wasn't scary; everything just slowly went black...
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"The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life
having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

Lately I keep having dreams where I am back in my past but I shouldn't be there and I feel awkward.It's very strange.
I have had some weird dreams but I don't recall any where I am actually dead, always just about to die and then I suddenly wake up.I think a lot of people have dreams like that.
I would love to have a dream where I do believe I am actually dead and a ghost just to see what I would do subconsciously.

Prudence · Newbie Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 17

Even weirder, Spasm - I found everything kind of closed in and went black as well. I was also relaxed and resigned when I died. Maybe we have hit on something here? Wink

TC · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject:

I once dreamed I was at work and had to go and do some photocopying, only I didn't want to because then everyone in the office would see I was wearing pyjamas... but I was relaxed and resigned to it. Wink

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There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello)

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

I have so much more courage in dreams than in real life.I have physically strangled people in dreams. All the consequences and inhibitions that we have in our waking lives don't exist at all.Hynosis must use this same part of the brain to induce trances.

TC · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject:

I don't think trance is necessary for hypnosis to work (depending on your definition of hypnosis of course). I once had some hypnotherapy - which made very clever use of language... but I was not in a trance during any part of it.
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There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello)

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

It's funny actually.When I was about 10 and it was friday the thirteenth my sister said she saw my two arms rise up out of the bed and that I was actually sitting up and talking.She said I totally freaked her out especially considering what day it was.
Do you ever have a dream when you know it's a dream and in your dream you say, I know this is just a dream, but you still let your mind carry on nonetheless?

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

Definitely strange, Pru!

Interesting proposition, though - people generally only experience death the once (forgetting all that OOBE and NDE hoohah) so nobody knows how they would react. Perhaps if Derren could convince someone they were dead, it would be fascinating to see just what they would do. Would they be resigned to it like we were in those dreams? Or would they start panicking?

*strokes imaginary goatee thoughtfully*
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"The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life
having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma

TC · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject:

I have had a dream and been aware that it is a dream. There is no doubt some relatively straightforward explanation maybe relating to which part of the sleep cycle you are in at the time. I have (allegedly) also had conversations with hubby whilst I've been asleep, and not been aware of it at all when I've actually woken up. Freakier for hubby thatn for me, fortunately. I used to sleep walk as a child. On one occassion we were on holiday somewhere and I went walking round the hotle at some stupid time in the early morning. That night the hotel management had several reports from people saying they thought they'd seen a ghost. Embarassed

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There's malice and there's magic in every season - (Elvis Costello)

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

I don't think they would panic as if they are under hypnosis they will not have the same conscious awareness.They wouldn't be thinking,like in a dream,of what being dead actually means.They would probably accept it in the here and now but not look at it in the lng term which would cause panic.Thats just what I think anyway.What do you think Pru?

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

Ooh, lucid dreams are fun! Very Happy

Yep, debbie, but what if it was possible to do it without the person being under hypnosis? Say, if Derren could do it by mere suggestion, and phrasing? Would the person react in the same way? Their conscious mind would still be active...

(Anna - just posted a pic for the you in the 'Something On Your Head' thread!)
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"The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life
having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma

debbie20 · Forum Spice Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 1175

phoenixz · Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: pulsive

SpasmTheCat · Resident Stuffed Feline Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 7345

I think I've seen someone do that - can't remember who it was, though...

Now, if you could make someone believe their pulse has stopped, and then expand on that...

Oh, and I think for added effect, Derren should persuade them that he is the Devil.

Twisted Evil

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"The more times the man himself lies, the more times he will come back to life
having his own forum" ~ AnnaM on Karma